Curse

Sora267 · Mar 03, 2008, 02:37 AM // 02:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by SerenitySilverstar

I'll poach a Malice quote from a similar thread not long ago:

"People confuse nostalgia with quality"

And if it's taken 5 pages to point that out, as per usual you're all too busy listening to yourselves talk.

I'm speaking for myself here, but the only reason I prefer the pre-NF days is, even though there may be a higher quality of stuff now and more content, the gameplay-affecting grind titles are game-breaking for me.

SerenitySilverstar · Mar 03, 2008, 07:44 PM // 19:44

Titles are a choice, not a pre-requisite to enjoy or be good at the game.

But that's a broken-record discussion. No one listens anyway, because they'd rather moan that their choices have been taken away.

Seriously, it's all in your head.

Nanood · Mar 03, 2008, 07:49 PM // 19:49

I think the term Jumping the Shark has reached it's peak and is now heading down the gurgler.

fRag_Doll · Mar 03, 2008, 08:15 PM // 20:15

OP's definition of "jumping the shark" is wrong.
The term originates from the TV show Happy Days, when "The Fonz" jumped a shark on water skis.
It's not the point where something has peaked, it's the point where it has finally gotten so ridiculous that everyone basically abandons it.

And no, I don't think GW has jumped it yet.

MSecorsky · Mar 03, 2008, 08:21 PM // 20:21

"Jumping the Shark", as you may know, is (in the original meaning) a desperate attempt by a program that's failing to save itself and it's ratings which fails miserably. It's usually so far outside the original premise of the program that people feel they completely sold out. It actually gets it's name from the moment in the show "Happy Days" where Fonzie quite literally jumped his motor-cycle over a pool full of sharks. That episode was considered the beginning of the end of the series.

Sales figures seem to indicate that this moment has not yet occurred in Guild Wars. People continue to play, new people continue to join. People leave to find something new (time has that affect), not (usually) because any one defining moment ruined the whole "definition" of what Guild Wars was/is.

romeus petrus · Mar 03, 2008, 08:45 PM // 20:45

Sure GW is not as young as it was when there was only prophecies. There is still a lot of fun to have. Some peoplel are leaving, others are just starting off. It's kinda hard to say the game "jumped the shark" when there are no expansions so a down hill spiral is kinda out of the picture. It is still the same game it was for a good while. You're level of enjoyment may vary.

Estic · Mar 03, 2008, 08:52 PM // 20:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by SerenitySilverstar

Titles are a choice, not a pre-requisite to enjoy or be good at the game.

But that's a broken-record discussion. No one listens anyway, because they'd rather moan that their choices have been taken away.

Seriously, it's all in your head.

QFT (x12) Huzzah!

fRag_Doll · Mar 04, 2008, 02:44 AM // 02:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSecorsky

Fonzie quite literally jumped his motor-cycle over a pool full of sharks.

I don't know where you got that info from.
Fonzie jumps the shark

Bryant Again · Mar 04, 2008, 02:47 AM // 02:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSecorsky

"Jumping the Shark", as you may know, is (in the original meaning) a desperate attempt by a program that's failing to save itself and it's ratings which fails miserably. It's usually so far outside the original premise of the program that people feel they completely sold out. It actually gets it's name from the moment in the show "Happy Days" where Fonzie quite literally jumped his motor-cycle over a pool full of sharks. That episode was considered the beginning of the end of the series.

Sales figures seem to indicate that this moment has not yet occurred in Guild Wars. People continue to play, new people continue to join. People leave to find something new (time has that affect), not (usually) because any one defining moment ruined the whole "definition" of what Guild Wars was/is.

I think in this instance everyone has about the same mentality: The moment in GW history where they "sold out," so to speak.

Scary · Mar 04, 2008, 05:31 AM // 05:31

Diggin in memory.... aaa almost black and white.. ohh there it comes.
Spring 2005 what a beatifull day it was.. The day Prophecies came to the shops.
The lovely Pre.. your fisrt GW guilds, team mates etc.
Everybody screaming for Pugs.
Only things to explore with people, No hero's and No freaking grinding for titles.

OMghhh there was factions.... that was a change, but still not to bad.
After factions they should made more advantage of Prophecies like they did
with Soro Furnace and the change of the Tombs.. (for some that was hell :P )

But NOOOOOOOOO .. there was Nightfall with Hero's .. I hear them Calling
Who??? It was Anet They are shouting KILLLL THE PUGS.
And now after they killd them, they dont let the survivors use al there hero's.

O men let hope they have a better strategy for GW 2

~ Dan ~ · Mar 04, 2008, 09:11 AM // 09:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by roshanabey2

Actually factions made pvp better, but I agree in the idea Nightfall created an unbalanced game.

Factions brought with it sins and shadowstepping. You have no idea what you're talking about.

Surena · Mar 04, 2008, 09:21 AM // 09:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by dan-the-noob

Factions brought with it sins and shadowstepping. You have no idea what you're talking about.

It wasn't that bad compared to today, NF made things way way worse. Glad I missed its first 6 months and could only hear the outcries over my messenger.

Olim Chill · Mar 04, 2008, 03:55 PM // 15:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSecorsky

"Happy Days" where Fonzie quite literally jumped his motor-cycle over a pool full of sharks. That episode was considered the beginning of the end of the series.

Aaaayyyyy! What pool?

MSecorsky · Mar 04, 2008, 04:48 PM // 16:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by fRag_Doll

I don't know where you got that info from.
Fonzie jumps the shark

Heh... you're right, I was mentally crossing it with an image of Fonzie jumping something on his motorcycle and wiping out at the end of it... thanks for that mental clarification!

Bleh... they were both crappy episodes anyhow.

Cjlr · Mar 04, 2008, 09:54 PM // 21:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by SerenitySilverstar

I'll poach a Malice quote from a similar thread not long ago:

"People confuse nostalgia with quality"

Yeah, that about covers it.

GW hasn't changed very much, but a lot of the same thing for three years is bound to get a little old. I played like, 250 hours during the summer in 05. And about as much since. Hell, I still haven't finished Nightfall or EotN yet. It just gets old, you know? And when there are so many other great games out there too...

The stupidest thing they ever did was add PvE-only skills, though. Hands down. Worst. Idea. Ever. Rest assured I was on the internet in minutes, registering my disgust.

CHannum · Mar 05, 2008, 12:05 AM // 00:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cjlr

The stupidest thing they ever did was add PvE-only skills, though. Hands down. Worst. Idea. Ever. Rest assured I was on the internet in minutes, registering my disgust.

Wrong. Worst idea ever was forcing PvE balances to mirror PvP. PvE only skills were a long time coming to allow traditional sorts of powerful fun that wouldn't be balanced in a competitive environment which, hate to break it to you, instanced PvE is not, nor something that the vast majority of gamers want it to be no matter how many "nerf ursan" threads pop up here a week.

Most people just want to have fun, whatever form that fun is. When game devs follow the PvP side too closely, the "single player" game is often nerfed into a far lesser game for the majority of the player base. I've seen way too many games go the route of unplayability over the years because of this short sighted planning by game devs. I think the PvE only skills were a stroke of genius to allow people to have fun while not interacting with PvP in any way.

Cacheelma · Mar 05, 2008, 02:46 AM // 02:46

Name me a MMORPG game that doesn't have what you called "PvE balances to mirror PvP" please.

CHannum · Mar 05, 2008, 07:35 AM // 07:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cacheelma

Name me a MMORPG game that doesn't have what you called "PvE balances to mirror PvP" please.

Off the top of my head (and past 2AM

), I can't, doesn't mean it's not a design flaw.

It's nothing but pure laziness to mirror balances necessitated by what players do against one another in PvP to affect PvE. PvE and PvP should have as much to do with one another as higher ordered algebra and ancient literature.

The Diablo 2 necro I was forced to abandon all those years ago knows all too well what happens when PvP determines PvE skill changes

Abedeus · Mar 05, 2008, 07:48 AM // 07:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cacheelma

Name me a MMORPG game that doesn't have what you called "PvE balances to mirror PvP" please.

Ragnarok Online. Skills that are good in PvE are often unbalanced in PvP. How they fixed it? Those skills are a bit weaker in pvp mode or against humans. Like...

Deal 10 times x your magic attack x element to target. Very, VEEEERY strong spell. How they balanced it in PvP? You have to be enchanted with a special spell, but you can't use it on yourself (so you need a help from other player). And even then it's only 5x magic attack. If you try anyway, without enchant, you are stunned (almost like KD, but you can heal via potions) for 2 seconds.

Or all shadowstep-like spells have range cut down in half in pvp. I wish GW had something like that.

Kashrlyyk · Mar 05, 2008, 09:16 AM // 09:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

Ragnarok Online. Skills that are good in PvE are often unbalanced in PvP. How they fixed it? Those skills are a bit weaker in pvp mode or against humans. Like...

Deal 10 times x your magic attack x element to target. Very, VEEEERY strong spell. How they balanced it in PvP? You have to be enchanted with a special spell, but you can't use it on yourself (so you need a help from other player). And even then it's only 5x magic attack. If you try anyway, without enchant, you are stunned (almost like KD, but you can heal via potions) for 2 seconds.

Or all shadowstep-like spells have range cut down in half in pvp. I wish GW had something like that.

Why didn´t the developers do something like that? I think they gave a reason at some point, but I can´t remember it.